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With KGO-AM Talk Format Gone, Santa Cruz KSCO-AM Hopes to Pick up the Pieces

After being top in the nine-county Bay Area market for 32 years, KGO-AM (810) dropped to 7th place. It's new owner, Cumulus, fired almost all of the staff and is replacing news-talk with plain news.

Monday, on your commute over the hill, don't be surprised when the talk shows you listened to for more than 30 years are gone.

San Francisco's KGO-AM (810) radio fired most of its staff Thursday and announced Friday that it will be a mostly news station, like its neighbor KCBS-AM (740). The only weekday host who remains is Ronn Owens, from 9 a.m. to noon. Among those let go were Gil Gross, John Rothmann, Lloyd-Lindsay Young, Gene Burns, Ray Taliafero and their producers.

It's a change that Michael Zwerling, the owner of Santa Cruz talk station for the past 20 years, relishes.

"I want to pick up all those listeners who are looking for a new home," said Zwerling. "We are the only station now with local talk shows."

(There is also a liberal talk station KRXA-AM (540)in Monterey.)

Zwerling, 60, said he is reaching out to the fired KGO staff to see if he can hire some. He did an on-air interview with former KGO weekend night host Bill Wattenburg Saturday, who said he would be interested in being on the air in Santa Cruz.

Zwerling's station is quirky and local and reaches a broad demographic. Although it is about a fifth the size of KGO's 50,000 watts, the location of its three antennae on a Corcoran Lagoon at Portola Drive reflects the radio signal as powerfully as if it were 50,000 watts. It can be picked up as far north as Mountain View and Fremont in the daytime and as far south as King City. Sometimes it stretches as far as Sacramento and Bakersfield.

Once strictly conservative, the station has opened slots to local hosts. (In the interest of full disclosure, I do a show there Wednesday's 2-4 p.m. as a volunteer.)

Its early morning show "Good Morning Monterey Bay," hosted by from 6-9 a.m., has no political bent and has interviews with local people and artists from other areas who are performing locally. From 9 a.m. to noon, syndicated conservative flame thrower Rush Limbaugh holds down the fort. The most-listened-to host in the country, Limbaugh is a big draw.

The rest of the day is a mix of local and syndicated hosts. Zwerling says he is mulling the possibility of going with all local talk shows and picking up as much of KGO's audience as he can.

KGO had been at the top of the ratings for 32 years, a record in any market, but has fallen recently to 7th place, either because its audience is dying off or because the new method stations use to determine ratings isn't reflecting the audience.

Ratings used to be done by asking listeners to fill out diaries that report what they listened to all day. It was common for a fan of a station to just write that he only listened to that station all day long. Now, listeners wear a device like an iPod called a Personal People Monitor that records what is actually being heard.

Some in the industry, including former KGO president Mickey Luckoff, say that the Arbitron ratings service doesn't pass out enough of the monitors to get a fair sample. Several stations with minority audiences have sued Arbitron for the same reason, adding that because the PPMs aren't stylish, their listeners don't wear them.

None of that matters to Zwerling. He doesn't pay for ratings and doesn't get them. The last time he looked into buying the service it cost $8,000 a month and he didn't think it was worth it. He bases his decisions on conversations and emails from community members, a rarity among commercial station owners who use the ratings to sell ads.

"We tell advertisers to try us out and if it works, stay with us," said Zwerling.

Zwerling hopes that listeners who still crave the talk format will find his station, on the AM dial or at www.ksco.com. He says radio has been hurt, like most other media, by what is available free on the Internet but hopes he can build a brand of original programming that will be popular there as well.

He said he doesn't know if he can afford the KGO hosts and thinks they may end up together on another Bay Area station, but he is in talks to see if he can make something happen here.

"Golliath is dead and David is alive and kicking," he said. "The loss of talk up there opens up a whole new audience for us."

Patch blogger Valerie Lemke weighs in about the loss of KGO in this .

Pam Decharo December 5, 2011 at 05:49 am
Sure would listen, if Gene Burns, Gil Gross, John Rothman, and Len Tillum, any of them, we on this station.
Diane Noland December 5, 2011 at 05:50 am
I used to listen to KSCO, but it became too conservative for me, so I switched a long time ago to KGO and sometimes NPR. I am very upset about the firing of some of my favorite talk show hosts, John Rothman, Gene Burns, Len Tillem, and especially the way they did it. I live in Capitola, so if KSCO puts on intelligent, less conservative talk, such as those hosts I've mentioned, I will definitely tune in.
J December 5, 2011 at 12:08 pm
I don't think I could bear fluff about artists and musicians and I typically avoid any station that puts money in Rush Limbsughs pocket. But get some real thought provoking talent in like Gross or Rothman and I am there. (but seriously, dump Rush - he's just evil).
Henning Bjerre December 5, 2011 at 12:10 pm
Here is an KSCO Internet live Radio Link: http://bit.ly/KSCO1080 to listen to them anywhere:)
Henning Bjerre December 5, 2011 at 12:18 pm
I like to see the Dr Bill Wattenburg & Len Tillum here too!
Sally Johnson December 5, 2011 at 12:49 pm
I will try and get your station. I live in San Jose. KGO is "dead to me " and I've emailed all of their bigger advertisers that their continued support of KGO will make them also "dead to me". I hope you are successful in getting at least some of the great hosts from KGO.
Loyola Leveroni December 5, 2011 at 01:14 pm
I was in a state of shock for 2 days. All of those guys were just like old friends and I couldn't believe anybody could be so cruel as to just rip them out of our lives like that. Re KSCO: If you can get the KGO guys, I can listen on the internet--however, the fact that they carry the fat drugged out lying slob is pretty much a turn off.
laurie December 5, 2011 at 01:34 pm
I think that a station with Rush would be hard pressed to get most KGO listeners. I personally would not listen during Rush's show.
Kirc Vaem December 5, 2011 at 02:32 pm
I thought that some of KGO's hosts pushed the envelope - like Ray Taliafero, whose bigotry and racism is simply wrong - but Ray and some of the others were fun to listen to. I will especially miss Wattenberg. I live on the coast just north of half Moon Bay. We can tune in 1080 - but it isn't listenable.
Ethan Bearman December 5, 2011 at 02:33 pm
laurie,
As pointed out by Brad, there are a wide range of shows on KSCO. MZ wanted the biggest radio show in the US, Rush Limbaugh. Check out their show schedule and you will find a very broad range of programming. http://www.ksco.com/program
Kirc Vaem December 5, 2011 at 02:40 pm
Laurie --- Rush was on KGO for years. They led in ratings all of that time. Rush may not have been the reason, but it is obvious that he didn't hurt.
Mary December 5, 2011 at 04:02 pm
I lived in the Monterey Bay area for 25 yrs - now in Missouri for the last 6. I was an avid listener of KGO for the past 31 yrs, but now will not. I will definitely listen to KSCO if they can get some or all of the former KGO hosts, I will not listen to Rush - he's just too radical for my likes.
Mary I listen via Internet or WiFi radio that I bought from CCrane co via KGO ad!
Paul Kaneko December 5, 2011 at 04:30 pm
I am a regular KGO listener and have been for years. I am astounded to how their new owners have summarily fired so many of their talk show hosts--all at once. I think it's a sad commentary on how business often treats their good, loyal employees. They have no heart!
As far as switching to KSCO: whenever I think of KSCO, I think of it as a conservative station that supports the likes of Rush Limbaugh--ugh. This is the reason I am not a KSCO listener. I will never support any station that supports Rush. He's toxic.
Brad Kava (Editor) December 5, 2011 at 05:07 pm
Actually, Rush was on KNBR and is now on KSFO. He had been on weekends on KGO, but Mickey Luckoff once said his biggest mistake was not picking him up when he could have cheaply.
Brad Kava (Editor) December 5, 2011 at 05:09 pm
well, KSCO has a good antidote to Rush...from 2-4 p.m. they do shows called "What's Left," which are opposite Rush. I used to call myself the Anti-Rush.
Nick Haflinger December 5, 2011 at 05:13 pm
As a local broadcaster, I have to make a couple of corrections.
KSCO does not have the same signal as a 50,000 watt radio station, especially at night when they have to reduce power, when they are hardly listenable in San Jose. And Monterey Bay is the number 89 market in the country and does not use the PPM for ratings. That's only being done in the top 50 markets at this time. Which means they are still using diaries like they always have. In truth, the ratings don't matter so much in a small market. It's handshakes and networking that creates sales, not ratings.
Pat Dowling December 5, 2011 at 05:59 pm
So Mr. Zwerling wants to hired some of the fired talk show hosts at KGO? Lol...this would be hilarious if it weren't so damn pathetic...We're talking about an owner whose extraordinarily shallow pockets (hello, Easton and K.O.) have been the subject of numerous articles and blogs in the past. The thought of him writing out checks for many thousands of dollars a month to Ray, John, Len, Joannie, Bill, Gill, etc., etc is laughable. Oh well, Michael, at least you got a little PR for KSCO.
Cathy P. December 5, 2011 at 06:58 pm
Gil Gross and Gene Burns are gone? Len Tillem also? How about Karel? I HAVE to listen to KGO as I commute over the hill each morning for traffic and road conditions, especially during winter. I'm with Mr. Kaneko, the conservative "talk" (if you can call it that) spewed by Limbaugh is toxic and I'd never waste my time listening. Guess my Sirius/XM radio will be the only thing I'll be listening to from now on. How very sad for KGO, guess it is all about the almight dollar and nothing else.
Cathy P. December 5, 2011 at 07:23 pm
Make your voice heard "Occupy KGO." https://www.facebook.com/OccupyKGOAM810
Dave December 5, 2011 at 08:38 pm
KCSO in Santa Cruz is amateur hour. The owner is a buffoon. I've heard horror stories about him never paying sales people. I can't imagine the station makes ANY money as there are rarely any commercials. The morning show with that horrible accented English lady is a joke. The musical guests are painful to listen to. The old guy in the afternoon is also painful to listen to and his programming choices of songs that pre-date WW II is just plain stupid. Who is his audience? Old people? Without their hearing aids they can't hear the programming anyway. At 7pm, they have some conspiracy theory and paranoia show that is so freakin hilarious that it’s pathetic. As a commuter, the ONLY reason I tune in is for the traffic, and even that is laughable as the tools they use are outdated and/or often wrong. KCSO is just plain sad.
Enid Fox December 5, 2011 at 09:25 pm
I am so encouraged by this news!! Gene Burns needs to be heard. There is nowhere else John Rothman would rather be. I would happily tune in to KSCO!!
Enid Fox December 5, 2011 at 09:26 pm
I am so encouraged by this news!! Gene Burns needs to be heard. There is nowhere else John Rothman would rather be. I would happily tune in to KSCO!!
KRXAHal December 5, 2011 at 10:24 pm
Really, MZ, the only station on Monterey Bay with local hosts. I guess you never heard of KRXA 540 AM in Monterey. Oh yeah, you've heard of it all right but you're terrified that your always irritated listeners - irritated at you that is - will find out that there's a truly local station that reflects Monterey and Santa Cruz values.
Henning Bjerre December 6, 2011 at 07:56 am
Here's Dr Bill Wattenburg Discussing the future of Radio: http://bit.ly/KGOimplodes!
jskdn December 6, 2011 at 01:10 pm
Does the Rush Limbaugh show come with its own advertisers or does KSCO sell those spots itself?
Brad Kava (Editor) December 6, 2011 at 03:07 pm
Rush comes with his own ads.
Barbara gorson December 6, 2011 at 04:26 pm
brad.buddy, you know mz lies when he says ksco is the only talk station left in the bay area krxa has local talk host on every fukin' day...540am
and u won't hear ahole racists like flushed limpballs
Barbara gorson December 6, 2011 at 04:30 pm
that is billy sunshine
Barbara gorson December 6, 2011 at 04:40 pm
4 sane local talk go to krxa 540am .com
Barbara gorson December 6, 2011 at 04:41 pm
try krxa 540am.com 4 progressive local talk

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